The All New "Hey Roberto" Thread

[Kup]

Originally Posted by Electroshock

Yeah, I totally get your point.

Thanks! That actually did help to make my point very much!

[Electroshock]

Originally Posted by Kup

Thanks! That actually did help to make my point very much!

Okay, now I'm just confused.

[Nightbird]

Roberto,

Curiously, my husband is a huge robot buff far more than I am (and he's a creator of robot games/anime, too). But he says he has no interest in Transformers, he explains about it that "Because I like man-made mecha. They're not mecha, but lifeforms."

Conversely, I think that's exactly the reason why TF has been loved over decades. They're lifeforms. Whether hardcore fans or not, people who're going to watch Transformers may want to see empathizable, lovable, respectable characters with giant metalic bodies and sentient sparks instead of flesh and blood. Of course that's hard and expensive to make CGI characters, but you know better than anyone else, every character is fictional in the first place.

We acknowledge and appreciate for your great deal of efforts to materialize it. So I have no doubt nor worries about that point. So if the movie is going to be done with sincerity, it'll touch the hearts of the audiences again. I like the way Bay sometimes talks as if Optimus is his friend. I hope he keeps that feeling.

[Kup]

Originally Posted by Electroshock

Okay, now I'm just confused.

Despite the similar/same mold designs they have managed to individualized them through the color schemes unlike Bayformers.

Look at your Bumblebee & Cliffjumper pic. Same mold but each certainly stands out as an individual toy/character.

Remember its not a good idea to shoot yourself in the foot as you often do when trying to ridicule/disprove someone else.

[Master Fwiffo]

Originally Posted by Kup

Y
Another thing is that the robot designs are not very exciting, they all look more or less the same. In all previous other incarnations of the franchise every robot had a distinct look that was easy to identify even in those large collage posters depicting dozens of robots.

Bayformers? They all look basically the same, they lack individual character and this goes for the Autobots too. Put them all together and it will be like looking at a large crowd of people, sure every individual looks different but when you place them all together they all look the same.

Are you on crack?

All the movie Transformers look radically different from each other, more radically different then, say, the entire G1 Autobot lineup. They need more characterization, sure, but their looks are plenty different enough.

The only reason *you* can distinguish any G1 TF from another is because you've invested yourself so much in the characters. As Electroshock just proved, all of them look pretty much the same. Someone who didn't know a thing about G1 couldn't tell one Autobot car from another. The movie bots at least Transform into very different things.

[Kup]

Originally Posted by Master Fwiffo

Are you on crack?

All the movie Transformers look radically different from each other, more radically different then, say, the entire G1 Autobot lineup. They need more characterization, sure, but their looks are plenty different enough.

The only reason *you* can distinguish any G1 TF from another is because you've invested yourself so much in the characters. As Electroshock just proved, all of them look pretty much the same. Someone who didn't know a thing about G1 couldn't tell one Autobot car from another. The movie bots at least Transform into very different things.

I am sure one would be able to tell the difference between a red and yellow car of the same design than two silver cars of slightly different designs.

[Electroshock]

Originally Posted by Kup

Despite the similar/same mold designs they have managed to individualized them through the color schemes unlike Bayformers.

Look at your Bumblebee & Cliffjumper pic. Same mold but each certainly stands out as an individual toy/character.

Remember its not a good idea to shoot yourself in the foot as you often do when trying to ridicule/disprove someone else.

Um...what?

None of the Bay robots look alike. You certainly couldn't mistake any of the Autobots for each other, as they have wildly different shapes/color schemes. The Decepticons also have vastly different shapes, with Barricade being small and black, Bonecrusher being all gangly and hunched over, Brawl being a brick house, Blackout looking like a giant fly, Megatron being the robot version of Sauron and Starscream being a flying ape from Hell. And of course, let's not forget Frenzy and Scorponok. Heck, the only ones who even look nearly identical are Starscream and Megs, and that's only if you're looking at them really fast.

Besides, aren't you the one that always says the Decepticons look like an entirely different species to the Autobots? Isn't that wildly differentiating the characters? Or are you going to take that back and say that the Decepticons look exactly like the Autobots now?

[Electroshock]

Originally Posted by Kup

I am sure one would be able to tell the difference between a red and yellow car of the same design than two silver cars of slightly different designs.

Two silvery cars...Jazz and...who again?

Oh, are you talking about the sequel? Because I only count the one silver car. Jazz is kinda dead. So yeah, one silver car, who also has a completely new body structure.

[Kup]

I believe that I have explained myself enough on that view point. I am sure that others will understand what I mean particularly when it comes to the robot designs that were the focus points of my original argument.

[Electroshock]

Originally Posted by Kup

I believe that I have explained myself enough on that view point. I am sure that others will understand what I mean.

Oh, I understand what you mean. You're just wrong wrong wrongity wrong.

[Master Fwiffo]

Originally Posted by Kup

Despite the similar/same mold designs they have managed to individualized them through the color schemes unlike Bayformers.

Look at your Bumblebee & Cliffjumper pic. Same mold but each certainly stands out as an individual toy/character.

Remember its not a good idea to shoot yourself in the foot as you often do when trying to ridicule/disprove someone else.

You only say that because **YOU KNOW WHO THEY ARE**. If I show those bots to my roommates, they couldn't tell one from another. What in that Seeker pic suggests that Starscream is the leader? Where is there any visible difference (color aside) between Frenzy and Rumbe? Sure, we can tell Ratchet is a medic and Ironhide isn't, but what does it actually *tell* us about either character? Your point is entirely moot.

If color is all that matters, the movie Transformers are way more distinct then G1 - we've got a Red guy, a Silver guy, a Yellow guy, a Green guy and a Black guy. Ta-Da. On top of that, they all transform into different things. Compare that to G1, where the distinction is the red, yellow, silver, blue, and white cars of the G1 Autobot line up.

Now, you might not *like* the movie designs, but they are more individual. Ratchet looks like an older guy, Ironhide has a big stern, bullish face, Jazz looks like frikken Jazz, Bumblebee is sweet and adorable, and Prime looks like a leader.

Now I'll grant you the Decepticons are a bit less distincitve (due to the fact that most have similar roles), but still, Brawl looks like a frikken war machine, Bonecrusher looks like a big angry grunt, Barricade just looks nasty, Blackout looks like a walking weapon, and Frenzy looks like a psychoctic little gremlin. THat just leaves Starscream and Megatron. Starscream I'll give you (though Reign of Starscream completely sold me on him, but that's not for right now), but really, how different is Megatron from G1 Megatron? THeir both big, relativly plain, and mean looking. Movie's more monsterous, but within the style, they're almost the same thing, without any real distinctive features.

Anyway, the point is, YOU'RE WRONG. There, I said it.

[Master Fwiffo]

Originally Posted by Kup

I am sure one would be able to tell the difference between a red and yellow car of the same design than two silver cars of slightly different designs.

*stares at TF2 lineup*

Ok, now, which two silver cars are you talking about? Is that your ONLY evidence?

For gods sake, let's look at the Autobot line up.

1 Big Red Longnose Trailer Truck
1 Big Black Truck
1 Greenish/Yellow Ambulance/Humvee
1 Sleek Silver Car
1 Sleek Bright Yellow Car
1 Tiny Bright Green Car
1 Tiny Maroon Car
3 Multicolored Motorcycles.
1 Giant Black Jet

So, which of these look the same?

[Kup]

I don't want to divert the current focus on Roberto's questions by dancing around in circles with Electrofwiff. I won't get into an argument that goes around and around as I have made my point even if you disagree with it and in some places seem to have misinterpreted it.

[Master Fwiffo]

Originally Posted by Kup

I don't want to divert the current focus on Roberto's questions by dancing around in circles with Electrofwiff. I won't get into an argument that goes around and around as I have made my point even if you disagree with it and in some places seem to have misinterpreted it.

In other words, your argument is bunk and you don't want to defend it.

[Kup]

Originally Posted by Master Fwiffo

In other words, your argument is bunk and you don't want to defend it.

Believe what you will, its what Electrofwiff does best. That's all.

BTW Nice bait attempt.

[Electroshock]

Originally Posted by Master Fwiffo

In other words, your argument is bunk and you don't want to defend it.

DA WINNAH RECEIVES A LIME!!!

Seriously now, maybe we wouldn't be going around and around like this if you hadn't made such a way out there argument, especially when said argument goes against another argument that you love, that the Decepticons look too different from the Autobots. You can't argue that all Bay's robots look the same while at the same time arguing that they look like a different species. You just can't do that.

[Kup]

Originally Posted by Electroshock

Seriously now, maybe we wouldn't be going around and around like this if you hadn't made such a way out there argument, especially when said argument goes against another argument that you love, that the Decepticons look too different from the Autobots. You can't argue that all Bay's robots look the same while at the same time arguing that they look like a different species. You just can't do that.

I will address that as its a fair comment.

True the Decepticons look radically different than the Autobots almost as different species and that is my principal complain about the Movie designs. However The Autobots do look 'friendlier' and considerably different in look to the Decepticons but there isn't anything about them that truly individualizes each character.

All the Decepticons are the same shade of gray and brown colors and this is worse in robot mode as they are so complex that there isn't any real feature that individualizes them. When it comes to the Autobot alt modes, yes they look different there but when they transform into robot mode they loose a lot of their individuality and have a more generic feel to them, including Prime despite being the most recognizable of the lot.

I don't see anything that truly makes the characters stand out as unique with the exception of Prime but even so he looses a lot due to his busy design and how much of the red gets broken up in robot mode.

I don't expect you to understand as you two have your own views and attitudes but I am sure others will.

[Massani MkII]

*facepalm* i thought we had a truce...

Guys, just agree to disagree and stop making insults (mainly you guys, electroshock and Fwiffo) and instead make concise intelligent arguments. Kup has a good point. All he's saying is that in the movie is that all the transformers have a similar body structure, outside of color.

And Electro and Fwiffo have a good point that it's almost always been that way.

[Electroshock]

Originally Posted by Kup

I will address that as its a fair comment.

True the Decepticons look radically different than the Autobots almost as different species and that is my principal complain about the Movie designs. However The Autobots do look 'friendlier' and considerably different in look to the Decepticons but there isn't anything about them that truly individualizes each character.

All the Decepticons are the same shade of gray and brown colors and this is worse in robot mode as they are so complex that there isn't any real feature that individualizes them. When it comes to the Autobot alt modes, yes they look different there but when they transform into robot mode they loose a lot of their individuality and have a more generic feel to them, including Prime despite being the most recognizable of the lot.

I don't see anything that truly makes the characters stand out as unique with the exception of Prime but even so he looses a lot due to his busy design and how much of the red gets broken up in robot mode.

I don't expect you to understand as you two have your own views and attitudes but I am sure others will.

I'm really not getting it. You say that the robots look too similar to each other and that the original versions looked more unique, correct? Well, it would be a valid point and all, but...

Originally Posted by Electroshock

Yeah, I totally get your point.

THOSE ROBOTS ARE EXACTLY THE SAME!

Of the 13 robots in the movie none of them are the same. You can say they are similar, but not the same. With the original Transformers, whom you brought into this by saying they looked more unique, a large amount of them are the exact same robot colored differently. All of the Seekers, Prowl and Bluestreak and Smokescreen and Red Alert, Sunstreaker and Sideswipe, Ratchet and Ironhide, Bumblebee and Cliffjumper, Trailbreaker and Hoist, Grapple and Inferno, they are exactly the same! Your point of "But in the good ol' days the robots looked all different from each other!" isn't valid because in the good ol' days most of the robots were carbon copies of each other.

Also, if you want to try and make the point of "Well, the ones who were different at least really looked different from the others!" Sorry, wrong again. Jazz looks like a robot with a car hood for a chest. Wheeljack looks like a robot with a car hood for a chest, but with fun ears. Hound looks like a robot with a jeep hood for a chest. In fact, you could pretty much just go "(___) looks like a robot with a (___) hood for a chest!" and you'd pretty much describe any Autobot. So again, the point really isn't that valid. Unless, of course, you want to get into the minutia of the robots, such as Wheeljack's fun ears or Trailbreaker's gun hand, in which case, movie Ironhide has two bigass arm cannons and Jazz has claw hands for easy breakdancing. So again the comparison doesn't really hold up.

[Electroshock]

Originally Posted by Massani MkII

*facepalm* i thought we had a truce...

Guys, just agree to disagree and stop making insults (mainly you guys, electroshock and Fwiffo) and instead make concise intelligent arguments. Kup has a good point. All he's saying is that in the movie is that all the transformers have a similar body structure, outside of color.

And Electro and Fwiffo have a good point that it's almost always been that way.

Truce does not mean we cannot disagree, so long as it is done respectfully.

[Massani MkII]

Originally Posted by Electroshock

Truce does not mean we cannot disagree, so long as it is done respectfully.

i'm reading disrespect.

[Kup]

Originally Posted by Massani MkII

i'm reading disrespect.

Yeah I got that too. That is also why I didn't want to dance particularly now as I knew where they wanted it to go.

[Onthedarkside]

Oi,Fwiffo and Electroshock,I applaued your effort debating with Kup but IMO he fights way too hard. Therefore,I think you guys should invest time and energy towards someone that is worth debating with about the movie designs. Save yourselves from future headaches.


And Orci,are you and Don asking the two questions out of curiosity or are you doing it so you guys can still make the right changes while you still can?????

[Kup]

Originally Posted by Onthedarkside

Oi,Fwiffo and Electroshock,I applaued your effort debating with Kup but IMO he fights way too hard. Therefore,I think you guys should invest time and energy towards someone that is worth debating with about the movie designs. Save yourselves from future headaches.


And Orci,are you and Don asking the two questions out of curiosity or are you doing it so you guys can still make the right changes while you still can?????

How can I debate too hard if I didn't want to do so to begin with? I just wanted to state my POV

[Onthedarkside]

Originally Posted by Kup

How can I debate too hard if I didn't want to do so to begin with? I just wanted to state my POV

Lol,you're saying you didn't want to but you did. Hehe.