Bush has won a second term!

[ks68]

It's now official! Bush has won a second term. Kerry is scheduled to give his concession speech around 1:00 PM Eastern Time.

BTW, I voted for Bush.:D

[Erazmus]

Great, another four years of a bumbling idiot in office. :rolleyes: Oh well, at least its over and I don't have to watch or hear about it any more. I'm done with this subject and that's all I have to say.

[Cyclonus31]

Originally posted by Erazmus
Great, another four years of a bumbling idiot in office. :rolleyes: Oh well, at least its over and I don't have to watch or hear about it any more. I'm done with this subject and that's all I have to say.

Kerry conceded faster than when he gave up and divulged info to the Vietnamese, eh?

What a freakin turncoat.

Needless to say, I didn't vote because I didn't want my vote to go to ANY of these morons. Bush, Kerry and Nader can all suck my sweaty ballsack after a hockey game.

Politics SUCK

[Wonkimus_Major]

Well I never liked that white-wig patrician Kerry, but I'm worried we'll get involved in at least one more war and the country will get even closer to bankruptcy now.:(

For those of you who voted for the Republicon ticket, can you please explain to me what you see in Megabush?

[Sermon]

I'm shocked. Roughly 58,600,000 people voted for George Dubjaah. Kind of makes you think about what's wrong with this country ...

[Cyclonus31]

Originally posted by Danbei
Kerry is a great man ,and would be a far more better president than George W. Bush would ever dreamed of being! Kerry was never a turncoat! He served his country by going to Vietnam with dignity! That isn't true about Kerry!

Being in the Military for 8 years, jackass, I know that when I took my vows to protect this country that, if caught by the enemy, you are to give:

a: Name
b: Rank
c: Serial Number

THAT IS IT!

Kerry gave a whole hell of alot more that probably got some of his fellow comarades hunted down, or even killed. There is way too many of these swiftboat guys out there agreeing with this to believe otherwise.

YOU DO NOT GIVE INFO TO THE ENEMY!

He did it to survive. To me, that's a traitor and a turncoat.

[WesReviews]

Who says Bush won?

http://www.gizmodo.com/archives/images/CNN-Election-Winner.jpg

;)

[Cyclonus31]

Originally posted by WesReviews
Who says Bush won?

http://www.gizmodo.com/archives/images/CNN-Election-Winner.jpg

;)

NOW THAT'S A CANDIDATE!

[Fire Star]

Originally posted by Cyclonus31
Kerry conceded faster than when he gave up and divulged info to the Vietnamese, eh?

What a freakin turncoat.

Needless to say, I didn't vote because I didn't want my vote to go to ANY of these morons. Bush, Kerry and Nader can all suck my sweaty ballsack after a hockey game.

Politics SUCK

I am very DISAPPOINTED that Bush won. But there are other options besides Bush, Kerry, and Nader. I didn't like Bush or Kerry myself and voted for a Libertarian candidate instead.

[Fire Star]

Originally posted by Danbei
Watch Bush Jr. is going to drive this great country of ours to the ground! Iraq will be a second vietnam! Terrorism will increase more! Binladen will get so strong that he will be impossible to beat! It will get worse instead of better! Thousands of soldiers more will lose their lives ,and innocent civilians too all over the world! The poverty rate is going to increase more! The economy is going to get worse! The crime rate here will also get worse due to poverty! He will create the worst depression ,since the 1930's, since Republican Hoover! Millions of people more ,and counting will be unemployed! The budget defeceit will be 3 times higher than the record high,he made of 3 trillion! The enviroment is going to get worst! This guy and his oil buddies are going to pollute our drinking water more,and pollute more the ocean with major oil spillages ,and they are going to continue drilling more for oil! And it won't do the enviroment or us any good! The education rate will hit a real all time low! More kids will drop out of school! The ordinary people like us will lose our rights! Their will be less democracy! More like Righty Communism Emperialism! Bush will show more of his hitler like nature! I see it coming! The turmoil has just gotten worse! This could be the begining of the end of the United States! Empires have fallen to corruption! Don't be surprise that the U.S. will be the next casualty! God I hope this is just a nightmare ,and that I'm dreaming!

Bush has been reelected and has nothing to lose. I'm afraid he could start World War III now. I heard him on CNN about 1 1/2 years ago wanting to go to war with Iran next. Since American forces are spread so thin as it is, I'm afraid the draft could be reinstated and for BOTH men and women. I'm glad I'm over 25. I didn't trust Kerry either though. I voted for a Libertarian candidate. I heard this candidate on Art Bell and I agreed with everything he had to say. He was a breath of fresh air, something different from the old Democrate and Republican crap we've been hearing for ages which is all the same in the end.

[Wonkimus_Major]

Some have already said Bush wants the draft back. If he starts another war, you can be almost sure of it. An all-volunteer army wouldn't be enough!

[Cyclonus31]

Originally posted by Wonkimus_Major
Some have already said Bush wants the draft back. If he starts another war, you can be almost sure of it. An all-volunteer army wouldn't be enough!

Wonky, he's already said that the draft will not be back. He doesn't even know where that came from. It was speculation created to get votes in other places other than Bush's.

If we were to start another war, another thing we wouldn't be is stretched "too thin".

Our technology these days is getting so good that we might not even need foot soldiers anymore. Hand to hand combat is a thing of the past...Army's are heading that way as well.

Before you know it, people will be holding remote controls and bombing small buildings from 100,000 feet above.

We don't need another draft...Technology is taking over. Hence downsizing the military. We re-upped that when 9-11 hit and people were volunteering all over the place and still are.

We're not short of military might, no doubt

[sppower]

Originally posted by Cyclonus31
Wonky, he's already said that the draft will not be back. He doesn't even know where that came from. It was speculation created to get votes in other places other than Bush's.

If we were to start another war, another thing we wouldn't be is stretched "too thin".

Our technology these days is getting so good that we might not even need foot soldiers anymore. Hand to hand combat is a thing of the past...Army's are heading that way as well.

Before you know it, people will be holding remote controls and bombing small buildings from 100,000 feet above.

We don't need another draft...Technology is taking over. Hence downsizing the military. We re-upped that when 9-11 hit and people were volunteering all over the place and still are.

We're not short of military might, no doubt

Exactly. I had to do a report about this for school. Many experts have said that the two years mentioned in that draft bill would not be enough for training with all the tech we have today. It would also create too many people. That bill was actually proposed in early 2003 by two democrats to scare the republicans by saying "Hey, if you want a war, then it will be your kids too."

I am very dissapointed that Bush won. I'm really worried that he will want to start another war or that he'll piss someone off enough to actually cause another attack. He's not exactly the most diplomatic president we've had. I think Kerry's foreign policy would have been way better. I wasn't a huge Kerry fan, but I didn't bother learning to much about the other candidates because I knew that they didn't stand a chance. I am glad that this didn't go into another 2000 lawsuit type thing.

One thing that really bothers me:

Bush's eagerness to call other countries evil. We were sort of okay with China during the Clinton years, right? Well, when Bush put out his "axis of evil" list, China was on it for some reason. How the hell are we supposed to deal with them? Their army is FIVE times as large as our ENTIRE POPULATION! Why would we want to fight them anyway? So what if they are sort of communist? We were getting along alright.

[COR]

Originally posted by sppower


One thing that really bothers me:

Bush's eagerness to call other countries evil. We were sort of okay with China during the Clinton years, right? Well, when Bush put out his "axis of evil" list, China was on it for some reason. How the hell are we supposed to deal with them? Their army is FIVE times as large as our ENTIRE POPULATION! Why would we want to fight them anyway? So what if they are sort of communist? We were getting along alright.

Agreeing or disagreeing with the man's policies aside, that's actually not true.

Bush's "Axis of Evil" was Iran, Iraq, and North Korea.

And last I knew our relations with China were better than they had been in some time, because of the cooperation between China & the US in the North Korea talks.

[ks68]

Originally posted by sppower
One thing that really bothers me:

Bush's eagerness to call other countries evil. We were sort of okay with China during the Clinton years, right? Well, when Bush put out his "axis of evil" list, China was on it for some reason. How the hell are we supposed to deal with them? Their army is FIVE times as large as our ENTIRE POPULATION! Why would we want to fight them anyway? So what if they are sort of communist? We were getting along alright.

China is NOT on Bush's "axis of evil" list. Those three countries were Iraq, Iran, and North Korea.

[Cyclonus31]

Originally posted by COR
Agreeing or disagreeing with the man's policies aside, that's actually not true.

Bush's "Axis of Evil" was Iran, Iraq, and North Korea.

And last I knew our relations with China were better than they had been in some time, because of the cooperation between China & the US in the North Korea talks.

Correct...It's Iran, Iraq and N. Korea. China is cool with us, and we're cool with them...for now. They're the only communist country left. They don't have a beef with us at this point.

[ks68]

Damn double post

[ks68]

First of all, he was inconsistent on every subject. For example, he claimed that he was a hunter and sportsman, but he voted for every anti-gun and anti-hunting measure in the Senate. He claimed that he was for the workers, but he voted for both NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement) and GATT (General Agreement on Trade and Tariffs). NAFTA has helped send a lot of good-paying jobs to Mexico. GATT helped to practically wipe out the textile industry in the USA and send good-paying jobs overseas.

He lied about having support from police organizations. The FOP (Fraternal Order of Police) was furious when Kerry said that.

Of course, he lied about what he actually did in Vietnam. He also claimed that he threw away his medals, but he still has them.

He voted to ban semi-auto shotguns that are commonly used for hunting and self-defense, but he didn't have a problem accepting a Remington 11-87 semi-auto shotgun from Remington union employees while he was campaigning.

He felt that we should've gotten the UN's permission to go after the terrorists. We would still be waiting today for their permission to go after the bastards.

He voted against weapons and other vital items needed for our troops. On top of that, he said that he was proud of voting against them.

His wife, Teresa Heinz Kerry, didn't help matters much either. She was always shooting her mouth off at the wrong times.

[Erazmus]

Blah blah blah. It's all pretty much moot at this point. Let's all just get on with our lives.

[ks68]

Originally posted by Erazmus
Blah blah blah. It's all pretty much moot at this point. Let's all just get on with our lives.

I agree.

[sppower]

Originally posted by ks68
I agree.

yep.

BTW, that China thing I heard about was from the same person that I just mentioned in marriage protection thread. He apparently does not know what he's talking about.

[Wonkimus_Major]

Originally posted by ks68
I agree.

I wish the canditates would just say what they really think. For example, I bet Kerry is anti-gun. Why bother trying to trick everyone into thinking he's a hunter when he isn't? Sad...

[COR]

Originally posted by Wonkimus_Major
I wish the canditates would just say what they really think. For example, I bet Kerry is anti-gun. Why bother trying to trick everyone into thinking he's a hunter when he isn't? Sad...

It's sad that running for an elected position has to be so political and people don't just come out and say what they are for and against.

One of my beefs with Kerry is that he kept saying "I have a plan, I have a better plan..." Yet he never detailed what his plans were. To me that sounds like alot of talk but not much substance.

[megs4ever]

The reason why the Democrats got pumelled?....... Becuase the forefront of their national agenda was stem cell research, pro choice and same sex marriage. These are issues that do not affect, reflect or sway the average joe. Add hollywood to the mix. Tim Robbins, Susan Sarandon and Mikey Moore, What do you expect. Senator Kerry's core issues that may have actually benefited the country got sidetracked because of this. The Democratic party used to be viewed as the working man's party. Not anymore! It's kind of a shame becuase Kerry mentioned social security, raising the minimum wage and allowing prescription drugs from Canada. All of these things could have benefited the average joe. Blame the loss on the Above mentioned people and agenda's that overshadowed what Kerry could have accomplished. Maybe someday the Democratic party will learn! With all that said i voted Bush.

[ks68]

Originally posted by megs4ever
The reason why the Democrats got pumelled?....... Becuase the forefront of their national agenda was stem cell research, pro choice and same sex marriage. These are issues that do not affect, reflect or sway the average joe. Add hollywood to the mix. Tim Robbins, Susan Sarandon and Mikey Moore, What do you expect. Senator Kerry's core issues that may have actually benefited the country got sidetracked because of this. The Democratic party used to be viewed as the working man's party. Not anymore! It's kind of a shame becuase Kerry mentioned social security, raising the minimum wage and allowing prescription drugs from Canada. All of these things could have benefited the average joe. Blame the loss on the Above mentioned people and agenda's that overshadowed what Kerry could have accomplished. Maybe someday the Democratic party will learn! With all that said i voted Bush.

That is so true. Until the Democrats decide to truly be for the working man, they will keep losing elections.

[Wonkimus_Major]

Originally posted by megs4ever
The reason why the Democrats got pumelled?....... Becuase the forefront of their national agenda was stem cell research, pro choice and same sex marriage. These are issues that do not affect, reflect or sway the average joe. Add hollywood to the mix. Tim Robbins, Susan Sarandon and Mikey Moore, What do you expect. Senator Kerry's core issues that may have actually benefited the country got sidetracked because of this. The Democratic party used to be viewed as the working man's party. Not anymore! It's kind of a shame becuase Kerry mentioned social security, raising the minimum wage and allowing prescription drugs from Canada. All of these things could have benefited the average joe. Blame the loss on the Above mentioned people and agenda's that overshadowed what Kerry could have accomplished. Maybe someday the Democratic party will learn! With all that said i voted Bush.

I think many of the people who voted Kerry were not really voting for Kerry, they were voting AGAINST Bush. But most of the Bush voters actually believed in the man.

And yes, it's a pity that the Democrats' core issues have become such hogwash like you say. Believe me, living where I do, I see it and hear about it all the time. And if you say anything against the ultra left-wing liberal agenda, you are considered brainwashed by Rush and the ultra-righties.

Whatever happened to thinking for yourself and not just following some party line?

[megs4ever]

Edit.

[sppower]

Originally posted by megs4ever
Edit.

Edit?

[SAJse]

Originally posted by COR
Agreeing or disagreeing with the man's policies aside, that's actually not true.

Bush's "Axis of Evil" was Iran, Iraq, and North Korea.
Actually, his axis of evil included 1 or 2 other countries (I think Syria was one), and this just made him look even thicker, because an axis should be comprised of three.
Originally posted by ks68
He felt that we should've gotten the UN's permission to go after the terrorists. We would still be waiting today for their permission to go after the bastards.
Don't you mean, "He felt that we should've gotten the UN's permission to go after >Iraq<"?

EDIT: I was wrong about Bush's "axis" of evil. It didn't include 3+ countries. It included 3 countries plus terrorists. Link (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/01/20020129-11.html).

[slang73]

A friend of mine said this today and I could not have said it any better. Oh yeah, I agree with him 100%.

Republicans and Bush deserve each other. So every time a soldier dies in this bullshit war, every time a fresh story surfaces about shady business dealings involving Cheney's cronies, every time gasoline prices reach astronomical heights, every time your taxes increase to fund the war, every time the government comes up with a way to further erode your freedoms...just remember who you voted for. And if you voted for Bush, you have absolutely no right to complain. You knew what you were voting for, and you're welcome to it.


I voted for Kerry, but regardless of what he said in his final speech today, I'm not going to do a damn thing Bush says. I have absolutely no faith or hope in that evil S.O.B. and I refuse to stand behind him and his false pretenses, "faith" and his vile crusade to write discrimination into the Constitution for his own political benefits. This man is not for the American people and he doesn't give a shit about any one of us. You are a complete fool to believe otherwise and you deserve everything that comes your way the next four years if you voted for him.

I think there are some important "things" people should follow in the coming months and years. Read into this whatever you want to on a personal level, I don't really care. Just be aware of what is going on in your world and educate yourselves to the Nth degree whenever and wherever you can. Don't limit yourselves with where you get your news from and don't accept one source as "fact" EVER.

Companies to pay attention to:

www.4verichip.com
www.diebold.com

Don't trust CNN, MSNBC or FOX News:

www.salon.com
www.commondreams.org/

[ks68]

Unfortunately, the Democrats are really no longer for the average working man and woman like they were in the past. They simply don't give a shit about them. The Democrats are now for liberals, gun grabbers, and welfare people.

If they (Democrats) want to regain control, they need to get off from their retarded anti-gun kick. Remember, blame the finger, not the trigger. Ted Kennedy's car killed more people than all of my guns in my collection has ever done.

The Democrats need to get back in touch with ordinary people, not assholes in Hollywood like "Hanoi" Jane Fonda, Barbra Streisand, and that fat fuck Michael Moore. Those jackasses do NOT represent anything that is normally associated with regular Americans.

When it comes to jobs, people don't want McJobs, they want REAL jobs that can help support a family. They need to offer tax incentives to companies that do business inside the USA so they don't go overseas.

[slang73]

Originally posted by ks68
When it comes to jobs, people don't want McJobs, they want REAL jobs that can help support a family. They need to offer tax incentives to companies that do business inside the USA so they don't go overseas.

Oh yes, and Bush is going to give you all of that. :rolleyes: :confused:

Kerry was going to work for the middle-class, work to develop and maintain new, high-paying jobs and remove tax "loopholes" that encourage companies to go overseas.

I'll agree that NAFTA was part of the problem, but you have to keep the global economy and our own in perspective. You have to create an atmosphere here in America that not only produces progressive, viable companies, but also creates a financial basis from which these companies have to maintain themselves here and in competition with those that are a part of the global economy. You can't do all this work to create new jobs here and neglect the global economy entirely. We need companies that can compete, and in a sense, create and maintain symbionic-type business relationships. Bush can't effectively put together a true coalition to fight for his "liberation" of Iraq, let alone work to get new companies to build, maintain and create business-to-business relationships that work for and benefit the population of this country.

I still can't believe that Bush received that many more popular votes over Kerry. Bush is a complete and utter idiot who did nothing but lie and manipulate out-of-context quotes (via Karl Rove's voice through the box under Bush's jacket) taken from things Kerry had said recently and over the years. Bush counted on the fact that his base would take what he said at face-value and not look into it beyond that. That's not a surprise really. I don't ever remember Jane Fonda or Barbara Streisand ever having an intelligent conversation with a redneck before. Not much common ground there to work with, really. :P

I still have to ask what is the point in being "steadfast" and "resolute" when you're wrong about everything you're being "steadfast" and "resolute" about? An expresslane to hell is the only point to it I can see.

[DarkProwler]

Originally posted by Danbei
If Prime were human , he would look like Kerry also!


Nah, if Prime were human, he'd look like a bearded truck driver in a red flannel shirt, blue jeans, and a blue ball cap :p

[Erazmus]

Originally posted by DarkProwler
Nah, if Prime were human, he'd look like a bearded truck driver in a red flannel shirt, blue jeans, and a blue ball cap :p

The scary thing is, I can totally picture that. Nice description.

[SAJse]

Daily Mirror columnist Brian Reade summed up anti-Bush feelings perfectly, in my opinion (and not just because he's a fellow Scouser). ;)

Link (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/tm_objectid=14832124%26method=full%26siteid=50143% 26headline=god%2dhelp%2damerica-name_page.html).

GOD HELP AMERICA Nov 4 2004


THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN..




THEY say that in life you get what you deserve. Well, today America has deservedly got a lawless cowboy to lead them further into carnage and isolation and the unreserved contempt of most of the rest of the world.

This once-great country has pulled up its drawbridge for another four years and stuck a finger up to the billions of us forced to share the same air. And in doing so, it has shown itself to be a fearful, backward-looking and very small nation.

This should have been the day when Americans finally answered their critics by raising their eyes from their own sidewalks and looking outward towards the rest of humanity.

And for a few hours early yesterday, when the exit polls predicted a John Kerry victory, it seemed they had.

But then the horrible, inevitable truth hit home. They had somehow managed to re-elect the most devious, blinkered and reckless leader ever put before them. The Yellow Rogue of Texas.

A self-serving, dim-witted, draft-dodging, gung-ho little rich boy, whose idea of courage is to yell: "I feel good," as he unleashes an awesome fury which slaughters 100,000 innocents for no other reason than greed and vanity.

A dangerous chameleon, his charming exterior provides cover for a power-crazed clique of Doctor Strangeloves whose goal is to increase America's grip on the world's economies and natural resources.

And in foolishly backing him, Americans have given the go-ahead for more unilateral pre-emptive strikes, more world instability and most probably another 9/11.

Why else do you think bin Laden was so happy to scare them to the polls, then made no attempt to scupper the outcome?

There's only one headline in town today, folks: "It Was Osama Wot Won It."

And soon he'll expect pay-back. Well, he can't allow Bush to have his folks whoopin' and a-hollerin' without his own getting a share of the fun, can he?

Heck, guys, I hope you're feeling proud today.

To the tens of millions who voted for John Kerry, my commiserations.

To the overwhelming majority of you who didn't, I simply ask: Have you learnt nothing? Do you despise your own image that much?

Do you care so little about the world beyond your shores? How could you do this to yourselves?

How appalling must one man's record at home and abroad be for you to reject him?

Kerry wasn't the best presidential candidate the Democrats have ever fielded (and he did deserve a kicking for that "reporting for doo-dee" moment), but at least he understood the complexity of the world outside America, and domestic disgraces like the 45 million of his fellow citizens without health cover.

He would have done something to make that country fairer and re-connected it with the wider world.

Instead America chose a man without morals or vision. An economic incompetent who inherited a $2billion surplus from Clinton, gave it in tax cuts to the rich and turned the US into the world's largest debtor nation.

A man who sneers at the rights of other nations. Who has withdrawn from international treaties on the environment and chemical weapons.

A man who flattens sovereign states then hands the rebuilding contracts to his own billionaire party backers.

A man who promotes trade protectionism and backs an Israeli government which continually flouts UN resolutions.

America has chosen a menacingly immature buffoon who likened the pursuit of the 9/11 terrorists to a Wild West, Wanted Dead or Alive man-hunt and, during the Afghanistan war, kept a baseball scorecard in his drawer, notching up hits when news came through of enemy deaths.

A RADICAL Christian fanatic who decided the world was made up of the forces of good and evil, who invented a war on terror, and thus as author of it, believed he had the right to set the rules of engagement.

Which translates to telling his troops to do what the hell they want to the bad guys. As he has at Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib and countless towns across Iraq.

You have to feel sorry for the millions of Yanks in the big cities like New York, Washington, Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles and San Francisco who voted to kick him out.

These are the sophisticated side of the electorate who recognise a gibbon when they see one.

As for the ones who put him in, across the Bible Belt and the South, us outsiders can only feel pity.

Were I a Kerry voter, though, I'd feel deep anger, not only at them returning Bush to power, but for allowing the outside world to lump us all into the same category of moronic muppets.

The self-righteous, gun-totin', military lovin', sister marryin', abortion-hatin', gay-loathin', foreigner-despisin', non-passport ownin' red-necks, who believe God gave America the biggest dick in the world so it could urinate on the rest of us and make their land "free and strong".

You probably won't be surprised to learn of would-be Oklahoma Republican Senator Tom Coburn who, on Tuesday, promised to ban abortion and execute any doctors who carried them out.

He also told voters that lesbianism is so rampant in the state's schools that girls were being sent to toilets on their own. Not that any principal could be found to back him up.

These are the people who hijack the word patriot and liken compassion to child-molesting. And they are unknowingly bin Laden's chief recruiting officers.

Al-Qaeda's existence is fuelled by the outpourings of America's Christian right. Bush is its commander-in-chief. And he and bin Laden need each other to survive.

Both need to play Lex Luther to each others' Superman with their own fanatical people. Maybe that's why the mightiest military machine ever assembled has failed to catch the world's most wanted man.

Or is the reason simply that America is incompetent? That behind the bluff they are frightened and clueless, which is why they've stayed with the devil they know.

VISITORS from another planet watching this election would surely not credit the amateurism.

The queues for hours to register a tick; the 17,000 lawyers needed to ensure there was no cheating; the $1.2bn wasted by parties trying to discredit the enemy; the allegations of fraud, intimidation and dirty tricks; the exit polls which were so wildly inaccurate; an Electoral College voting system that makes the Eurovision Song Contest look like a beacon of democracy and efficiency; and the delays and the legal wrangles in announcing the victor.

Yet America would have us believe theirs is the finest democracy in the world. Well, that fine democracy has got the man it deserved. George W Bush.

But is America safer today without Kerry in charge? A man who overnight would have given back to the UN some credibility and authority. Who would have worked out the best way to undo the Iraq mess without fear of losing face.

Instead, the questions facing America today are - how many more thousands of their sons will die as Iraq descends into a new Vietnam? And how many more Vietnams are on the horizon now they have given Bush the mandate to go after Iran, Syria, North Korea or Cuba...?

Today is a sad day for the world, but it's even sadder for the millions of intelligent Americans embarrassed by a gung-ho leader and backed by a banal electorate, half of whom still believe Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11.

Yanks had the chance to show the world a better way this week, instead they made a thuggish cowboy ride off into the sunset bathed in glory.

And in doing so it brought Armageddon that little bit closer and re-christened their beloved nation The Home Of The Knave and the Land Of The Freak.

God Help America.

[COR]

That article goes a little too far, especially when it calls for another 9-11esque attack on the United States. In fact that's alot too far.

Also, here is an answer to that article that is written from a moderate perspective rather than a draconian liberal elite point of view (from The Times, by the way):

Life did not end on Tuesday
Gerard Baker
It is absurd to believe that Bush's re-election represents the triumph of a Christian fundamentalism



COME OUT, readers, from under your bedclothes. Stop cowering behind the sofa. Quit exchanging looks of fearful incomprehension with strangers in the street.
The world did not end on Tuesday. A great darkness did not descend across civilisation. America is not about to embark on a biblically-mandated jihad against the enemies of evangelical Christianity around the world. American soldiers will not be enforcing Washington’s imperium on your towns and villages any time soon.



You will not be required to swap your compulsory licence fee from the BBC to Fox News. Gays will not be bundled back into the closet by sex police from Alabama and Mississippi. Women will not be dragged screaming from abortion clinics.

It is true that for some people the world did more or less end on Tuesday. John Kerry kept telling everybody this was the most important election of our lifetime. Well, he was at least right about that, was he not? It was the most important election of his lifetime.

John Edwards, I suspect, will have been revealed by this election to be what some of us suspected all along —– an empty suit with fantastic hair. If the Democrats’ problems really are that they didn’t appeal to the vast mass of middle America, I can predict that Hillary Rodham Clinton’s vaunting ambitions will not be the answer to their prayers in 2008.

Some Hollywood stars will have to make good on their threat to move to Europe. (I’d watch that one closely, though. They may prefer the mineral water and the conversation, but after a while they are going to find those income tax rates a little lifestyle-crimping.) But for the rest of us, Mr Bush’s re-election does not portend, as seems to be the general impression in Britain and the rest of Europe, the beginning of a new dark age of American imperialism abroad and the triumph of faith over fact at home.

The world’s grumpy reaction to Mr Bush’s historic win on Tuesday seems to be: we could take the past four years because we were convinced all along that Mr Bush was not a legitimate president. He had lost the popular vote and then cheated his way into office thanks to his brother in Florida and his friends on the Supreme Court. He didn’t represent America.

This “Hail to the Thief” line won’t work now that he is back with the largest number of votes ever cast for a presidential candidate. So the critics have to find something else to explain away the Bush phenomenon.

They have come up with this: Mr Bush did not win because he convinced the majority of mainstream, sensible Americans that his policies were the right ones and that his values were their values. He won because his campaign orchestrated a massive turnout by evangelical Christians (read: fundamentalist bigots) who were motivated by their myopic moral outlook, especially opposition to gay marriage, to return one of their own to the White House. Mr Bush’s election, therefore, is discredited, not because of its reliance on the Supreme Court, but because of its dependence on religious freaks.

There are several problems with this explanation. First, the objection to a high turnout is ironic. The word before the election was that the only way Mr Bush could win would be if the turnout was as low as possible; if large numbers of voters went to the polls they would have to be voting for Senator Kerry. Republicans were accused of actively suppressing voter turnout, especially in Democrat-voting black areas in Ohio and Florida.

In the event, everyone who wanted to got to vote. Black turnout was at record levels — but was eclipsed because virtually all groups turned out in larger numbers Second, the idea that Jesus won it for Bush is an appealing one but is not really supported by the facts.

It is true that evangelical Christian turnout was up substantially on last time — their failure to vote in large numbers in 2000 was a significant disappointment to the Bush campaign. But still they represented only 20 per cent of the electorate, in rough proportion to their strength in the population as a whole and about a third of Mr Bush’s overall vote.

It would be a stretch to say their efforts alone elected Mr Bush and pushed America into some kind of unenlightened moral absolutism.

There is broad support among Americans for many of the positions associated, in suspicious outsiders’ minds, with the evangelicals. Take gay marriage. Ballot initiatives to define marriage as a relationship between a man and a woman triumphed in all the 11 states where they were voted on; in most cases by margins of two or three to one. In Michigan, a state won by Senator Kerry, a state with a Democratic governor, a state that, by the way, has banned capital punishment since 1848, the marriage initiative was supported by 60 per cent of the voters.

Intriguingly, we learnt yesterday that Bill Clinton strongly advised Mr Kerry during the latter stages of the campaign to more forcefully support the anti-gay marriage initiatives.

There is a broad consensus against gay marriage that goes well beyond the religious Right just as there is a broad agreement in favour of making abortions scarcer (for a country run by religious nuts, America has surprisingly liberal laws on abortion), or for lifting some of the world’s tightest restrictions on the role of religion in public life (the British particularly should remember that, especially, as they drop their children off at state-funded church schools.) Mr Bush’s re-election was no narrow victory for religious zealots. It confirms that America is a decidedly conservative country, but not an alien one.

And its implications for the rest of the world are not baleful. All the world has to fear now is four more years of an America doing its damnedest to export the value that is at the heart of all of its people’s beliefs: that people should be as free to choose their own direction as the American people so joyously were this week.


gerard.baker@thetimes.co.uk

[SAJse]

Originally posted by COR
That article goes a little too far, especially when it calls for another 9-11esque attack on the United States. In fact that's alot too far.
Eh? Where does Reade call for an attack on America?
It is true that evangelical Christian turnout was up substantially on last time — their failure to vote in large numbers in 2000 was a significant disappointment to the Bush campaign. But still they represented only 20 per cent of the electorate, in rough proportion to their strength in the population as a whole and about a third of Mr Bush’s overall vote.
Yes, a third of 59 million is quite insignificant. :rolleyes:

I'm not saying that all of them voted, but even if half of them did, that's 10 million guaranteed "moron" votes that Kerry could not possibbly compete with.
It would be a stretch to say their efforts alone elected Mr Bush and pushed America into some kind of unenlightened moral absolutism.
No, it wouldn't. See above.

I don't think Baker's article contradicts Deane's in any way, because they're talking about seperate issues. Baker is questioning the validity of George Bush's victory, while Deane is questioning the sanity of his backers and how they (and America) are percieved by the rest of the world.

They will actually cause all Americans to be tarred with the same brush, even though the vote was virtually 50/50.

[SAJse]

Actually, the evangelical vote is weekened some, because there will always be hardcore liberals who will never vote Republican. They can't compare in numbers though.

[illvox2]

Originally posted by Danbei
Most people all knew this election was a fraud! Just like in my country!! There were too many misconducts/wrongdoings in the election done by government backers!!

[COR]

Originally posted by SAJse
Eh? Where does Reade call for an attack on America?

Looking back over that article I do see that I misread that part.



Yes, a third of 59 million is quite insignificant. :rolleyes:

The point is not, I think, that the numbers themselves are insignificant, but rather that there were alot more people who voted for Bush besides so-called 'right wing fundamentalists'


I'm not saying that all of them voted, but even if half of them did, that's 10 million guaranteed "moron" votes that Kerry could not possibbly compete with.

I won't deny that many evangelicals do have a very myopic view of the world, however to lump every person who self identifies as an evangelical together as a 'narrow-minded moron' makes you just as wrong and narrow minded as they are.


I don't think Baker's article contradicts Deane's in any way, because they're talking about seperate issues. Baker is questioning the validity of George Bush's victory, while Deane is questioning the sanity of his backers and how they (and America) are percieved by the rest of the world.


I didn't necessarily post the article to be a contradiction, because frankly I'm sure any article posted from a Conservative standpoint would have been immediately dismissed by those who don't agree as 'rubbish'. However the article did, to me, seem to come from a 'voice of reason' standpoint rather than one that attempts to put forward some dark vision of coming apocalypse. The fact is, like him or not, George Bush is not the Anti-Christ, nor is John Kerry for that matter. No matter who became elected, life goes on for all of us. We will not being going to war with Iran, or anyone else for that matter, in the next four years, unless it is provoked by a direct attack from the nation in question. I think you can prettymuch take that to the bank. You may not believe it, but we'll see who was right four years from now.


They will actually cause all Americans to be tarred with the same brush, even though the vote was virtually 50/50.

We'll get over it. ;)

And so will most of the rest of the world.

[SAJse]

Originally posted by COR
I won't deny that many evangelicals do have a very myopic view of the world, however to lump every person who self identifies as an evangelical together as a 'narrow-minded moron' makes you just as wrong and narrow minded as they are.
I'm not talking about every evangelical. I'm talking about the ones who voted for Bush.

It's deeds, not words, that make someone Christian. I call them morons because they can't seem to fathom a basic Christian concept. They cling to a president mainly because of his claims to be "at one with the lord". Suckers.
No matter who became elected, life goes on for all of us. We will not being going to war with Iran, or anyone else for that matter, in the next four years, unless it is provoked by a direct attack from the nation in question. I think you can prettymuch take that to the bank. You may not believe it, but we'll see who was right four years from now.
Do you mean like Iraq? Oh wait...

How can you say there won't be any wars in his second term. He had two wars in his first, and he's still got a couple of months to go. I think he can fit Iran and North Korea into his busy war mongering schedule. ;)
We'll get over it. ;)

And so will most of the rest of the world.
Get over what? It's only just begun. ;)

[COR]

Well at the very least it has made for an interesting discussion

;)

[yamis]

i turned 18 this year, and was offered the chance to vote. time to chose the candidate: personally, i hated bush. but i wasnt looking at that when i wanted to vote for kerry. i loooked at the condition our nation was in at the end of the last election, saw all the good clinton had done (despite his personal life, which should NOT have been such a big deal) and then i looked at the last 4 years with bush. i saw the pile of crap we were stuck in economically, saw how the rest of the world felt about us, long story short bush wasnt doing his job right. yes, we elect him to that position, but its still his job. kerry was not the ideal candidate, but as the less of two evils i decided to give him my vote.

buuuuuuuuuuut.............due to this years election problems, broward county (where i live now) lost almost 60,000 absentee ballots. it took over two weeks for my ballot to come to me from upstate NY (where im registered). when did i get my ballot? election day.

politics suck. nuff said.

[FreakNasty]

The one reason I don't Like BUSH and his cronies....


During the first few days during the attack on Iraq....Bush and his adminstration gave the American public through News channels.... SHOCK N AWE....they were letting people think of how powerful the nation was...I was almost in tears, they were making it out like some Blockbuster summer movie....people were dying and getting hurt during this Shock N Awe....


The only Shock was alot of people watched it for entertainment purposes...and the Awe...well....The Administration would bring this out like some Action flick....

[yamis]

yeah, well........you're canadien.

if the draft comes back (unlikley as it is) canada can expect some new citizens, eh?

[svenof9]

Bush back in + the passing of Arafat (who is bascially the only thing stopping all out war in the middle east) + Bushs view of Iran + ichy trigger fingers in North Korea = ONE BIG PROBLEM.

I will be very pleasantly surprised if the whole planet doesn't kick off within the next four years... and then hope to god that Hillary Clinton runs to be the first female president of the United States.

[Fire Star]

Originally posted by ks68
Unfortunately, the Democrats are really no longer for the average working man and woman like they were in the past. They simply don't give a shit about them. The Democrats are now for liberals, gun grabbers, and welfare people.

If they (Democrats) want to regain control, they need to get off from their retarded anti-gun kick. Remember, blame the finger, not the trigger. Ted Kennedy's car killed more people than all of my guns in my collection has ever done.

The Democrats need to get back in touch with ordinary people, not assholes in Hollywood like "Hanoi" Jane Fonda, Barbra Streisand, and that fat fuck Michael Moore. Those jackasses do NOT represent anything that is normally associated with regular Americans.

When it comes to jobs, people don't want McJobs, they want REAL jobs that can help support a family. They need to offer tax incentives to companies that do business inside the USA so they don't go overseas.

I agree wholeheartedly. Whenever I think Democrate anymore, I think Rosie O'Donald (shudders) and all those Million Mom marchers saying "Guns are the enemy!". The Democrates want to take away your right to bare arms. The Republicans want to take away all your other rights with one Patriot Act after another. Actually, if the Democrates were in power during 911, they probabely would too. You can't win either way.

Yeah, it seems all the Democrates energy is on Welfare, getting rid of YOUR guns, and such. When a bunch of McJobs are created, everyone jumps up and down and says, "You see, the economy is getting better!" Despite the fact a person lost a $40,000-a-year job to make minimum wage. And had to sell their house so the wife or husband, 3 kids, and the grandparents are all coped up in a one-bedroom apartment. Yeah that's progress!

I'm wondering if those people on Art Bell are right. I remember one night, two people called into Art Bell saying they have been receiving, in their sleep, visions of a new Civil War coming to America. Could that be possible?

[yamis]

dammit, can someone think of a future where i dont get drafted?

[sppower]

I don't buy into visions much. While a civil war would be theoretically possible, I highly doubt it. Do you realize how blinded by hate and divided this country would have to be? The old civil war was brutal on the soldiers, but it was at a time where that was a more acceptable way of solving problems and it didn;t involve the citizens much. I mean, when I talk to the average Republican I hear "Ha ha... we win!" When I talk to a democrat (most of the people I know): "I can't believe we lost! This is terrible! At least there was a high voter turn-out. At least people care."

That doesn't sound like a civil war. That sounds like we agree that we disagree and respect eachother for caring about the country. Unfortunatly, 51% of 75% of registered voters don't know what's good for them :D

[SAJse]

In my eyes, a civil war wouldn't be between Democrats and Republicans. It would be between Bush and a section of the populace.

[yamis]

like.....most of us?

[Julio-Claudius]

If only Black Lion would''ve posted in this thread. If only.

[Thankheaven]

Bush has won a second term!







....and now he has almost finished it and is gone for good....

[unchained5150]

Bush has won a second term!







....and now he has almost finished it and is gone for good....

For a second, I thought he'd won another :o

Good, thing they have an amendment for that.

[Thankheaven]

For a second, I thought he'd won another :o

Good, thing they have an amendment for that.

Indeed

Bush is like Rodimus Prime, he is a Prime but not much else:D

[specialcases]

Bush is like Rodimus Prime, he is a Prime but not much else:D


LOL - good one!:D

[SAJse]

Fuck, this thread is old. Even Danbei got in on the action.
For a second, I thought he'd won another :o

Good, thing they have an amendment for that.
For now...:o

[Massani]

holy shit... STEPHEN COLBERT!?!?!?!?!??!?!!





what would america be like if run by a COMEDIAN!?!?!?!?!

[Adrian Tullberg]

holy shit... STEPHEN COLBERT!?!?!?!?!??!?!!





what would america be like if run by a COMEDIAN!?!?!?!?!

They did a movie on that ...

... sort of devolved into a message against computerised voting machines. Pity; it was a great concept ...

[Mr_Magickon]

Fuck, this thread is old. Even Danbei got in on the action.


Who knew he could predict the future?

It's like he had a window into a room where pigs and people were having sex and that room had yet another window into the future of the Bush administration.

[Julio-Claudius]

Fuck, this thread is old. Even Danbei got in on the action.
Where? I guess you can view deleted posts or something.

[SAJse]

Who knew he could predict the future?

It's like he had a window into a room where pigs and people were having sex and that room had yet another window into the future of the Bush administration.
George Bush is to Pavel what match sticks are to Rain Main.
Where? I guess you can view deleted posts or something.
I was talking about the quotes.